1
00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:07,759
It's very exciting to experiment with

2
00:00:07,759 --> 00:00:11,200
structure. I think that many stories are

3
00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,080
best told in some elliptical way or some

4
00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,639
unusual way.

5
00:00:22,240 --> 00:00:24,480
There's only one rule of of show

6
00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:26,880
business or writing and that's don't be

7
00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,599
boring. So, anything that you can do

8
00:00:29,599 --> 00:00:32,160
that's interesting and novel and keeps

9
00:00:32,160 --> 00:00:34,320
keeps an audience engaged. Almost

10
00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,360
anything you you can do that's not

11
00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,399
boring will be successful. Like you

12
00:00:40,399 --> 00:00:43,520
could have a story that was just all the

13
00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,160
beginning. Now, I've never tried that.

14
00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:48,320
Just a story that kept having a

15
00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,480
beginning but never went anywhere. But

16
00:00:50,480 --> 00:00:52,800
yet, it could have its own ending that

17
00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:54,960
would be very experimental and it

18
00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:56,800
couldn't be too long. You could have a

19
00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,120
story that was just the middle. You

20
00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:00,879
could have a story that was just final

21
00:01:00,879 --> 00:01:02,640
paragraphs.

22
00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:04,799
I've asked my students sometimes to do a

23
00:01:04,799 --> 00:01:06,720
story that was just description of the

24
00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:08,479
scene

25
00:01:08,479 --> 00:01:10,240
where you're setting the scene very

26
00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,720
carefully for a story

27
00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,760
using really good descriptions and

28
00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,680
really original metaphors, but then

29
00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:21,520
that's the story. The whole story is

30
00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,759
setting the scene. So that would be

31
00:01:23,759 --> 00:01:27,040
experimental. I've seen a story by

32
00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,080
somebody whose younger brother died of a

33
00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:31,759
drug overdose and they didn't know he

34
00:01:31,759 --> 00:01:34,799
was even a drug addict. It was a shock

35
00:01:34,799 --> 00:01:38,079
because no one knew he was a he's taking

36
00:01:38,079 --> 00:01:42,320
heroin. So, he's reported he's dead. So,

37
00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:44,240
people in the family are so stunned by

38
00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,560
this. They just keep remembering when

39
00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,280
they last saw him. And did they have any

40
00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:50,880
hint? You know, people are always

41
00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:52,880
saying, "Oh, we had no hint." When

42
00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:54,799
people commit suicide, everybody said,

43
00:01:54,799 --> 00:01:57,920
"I I had no idea." Or, "Well, I might

44
00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:59,840
have had an idea." Or, "That's my fault.

45
00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:01,920
I didn't help." Or, "I didn't know what

46
00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,320
I could have done."

47
00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,399
All these thoughts lend themselves to a

48
00:02:06,399 --> 00:02:09,039
kind of like question and answer. You

49
00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:10,959
could have a whole story that was a

50
00:02:10,959 --> 00:02:13,440
questionnaire.

51
00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,599
I probably have done that, you know, a

52
00:02:15,599 --> 00:02:17,920
question, a question and answer. Okay,

53
00:02:17,920 --> 00:02:20,400
that'd be that'd be a nice story for a

54
00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,800
writer who wants to experiment a story

55
00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,520
in a question and answer mode. Another

56
00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,080
story could be just answers. I once

57
00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,400
wrote a story that was answers like the

58
00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,280
question you don't see. You just see the

59
00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,879
answers and that that was fun to do.

60
00:02:36,879 --> 00:02:40,480
So, I recommend for any story that you

61
00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:42,239
have that you like that you're haunted

62
00:02:42,239 --> 00:02:45,280
by to find some unusual way of telling

63
00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,840
it. Some experimental writers like like

64
00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,280
Donna Bar and Robert Coover and John

65
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,120
Barth have done all sorts of wild

66
00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:54,640
things.

67
00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:57,920
I once wrote a short story that was just

68
00:02:57,920 --> 00:03:00,239
notes to contribute on contributors. You

69
00:03:00,239 --> 00:03:01,760
know at the end of a magazine I have

70
00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,319
notes on contributors. So my story was

71
00:03:04,319 --> 00:03:06,720
called notes on contributors and it was

72
00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:08,640
in the magazine. So when people who read

73
00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:10,239
the magazine thought that thought that

74
00:03:10,239 --> 00:03:13,360
was the notes of the contributors but it

75
00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,599
really wasn't. It was a short story, but

76
00:03:15,599 --> 00:03:17,440
anybody could do that. I mean, that's

77
00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:19,519
something that somebody else could try.

78
00:03:19,519 --> 00:03:21,760
Notes on contributors.

79
00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,720
I think it would be really great for a

80
00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,519
new writer or young writer to say to

81
00:03:27,519 --> 00:03:30,959
herself or himself, I'm going to write a

82
00:03:30,959 --> 00:03:33,680
series of pros works

83
00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,879
so a novel that there's no name for what

84
00:03:36,879 --> 00:03:38,720
they are. And somebody will say, well,

85
00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,599
is it pros? Is it poetry? Is it work of

86
00:03:41,599 --> 00:03:45,120
art? and have each each story will be in

87
00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,920
the form of some interesting shape that

88
00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,959
no one's ever done before because to do

89
00:03:50,959 --> 00:03:53,040
something that no one's ever done before

90
00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,680
is really quite an accomplishment.

91
00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,400
So that's a challenge.

92
00:04:04,159 --> 00:04:07,040
Some time ago in in my own life, I was

93
00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,959
very interested in experimental music

94
00:04:10,959 --> 00:04:13,840
and there are piano pieces by Henry Cow

95
00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,799
who lived in early 20th century and I

96
00:04:16,799 --> 00:04:18,239
I'm not sure that I was trying to play

97
00:04:18,239 --> 00:04:20,239
these piano pieces but I was listening

98
00:04:20,239 --> 00:04:23,680
to them in recordings and Henry Cow had

99
00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,720
this really wonderful

100
00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,560
weird eerie technique opening the piano

101
00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,680
and playing the strings of the piano And

102
00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:35,600
when you play the piano in that way with

103
00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,720
the strings, this is very ghostly and

104
00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,120
strange sounding. It sounds like the

105
00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:45,320
piano, but it's different.

106
00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,240
And there's no resonance. Like when

107
00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:57,840
you're playing piano, usually you're

108
00:04:57,840 --> 00:04:59,600
using a pedal. So there's a little

109
00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,880
memory, the resonance of the music and

110
00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,160
and the vibrations continue. But with

111
00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,199
Henry Kyle, everything was kind of

112
00:05:09,199 --> 00:05:13,520
broken. And so it was discontinuous in a

113
00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,800
very exciting way. So ma I had the idea

114
00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,880
to write a story that would mimic that

115
00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,680
that structure. So the story would have

116
00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,960
these floating paragraphs like the

117
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,240
chords of a piece of music and each

118
00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,960
little paragraph would be very small and

119
00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,919
just have a fact

120
00:05:35,919 --> 00:05:38,639
each fact and then some paragraphs got

121
00:05:38,639 --> 00:05:42,080
longer. The title of the story is heat.

122
00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,880
So it was midsummer, the heat rippling

123
00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,400
above the catam roads, cicas screaming

124
00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,000
out of the trees and the sky like pewtor

125
00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,160
glaring. So I worked on that first

126
00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,400
paragraph for a while with the commas

127
00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,280
and the sky like pewtor comma glaring.

128
00:05:59,280 --> 00:06:01,759
That seemed important to me. So, I had

129
00:06:01,759 --> 00:06:04,000
that first paragraph

130
00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,000
and then the second paragraph, the days

131
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,720
were the same day, like the shallow mud

132
00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:10,800
brown river moving always in the same

133
00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,319
direction but so low you couldn't see it

134
00:06:14,319 --> 00:06:16,240
except for Sunday. Every day is the same

135
00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,800
day. Then church in the morning, then

136
00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,160
the Sunday newspaper, the color comics

137
00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,560
and newsprint on your fingers. So, when

138
00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,120
I got to the second paragraph,

139
00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,160
the word you came up. So now it seems

140
00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,680
that somebody's remembering something.

141
00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,000
The days were the same day. There'll be

142
00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,479
church in the morning on Sunday, the

143
00:06:38,479 --> 00:06:41,360
newspaper, the comics. So that suggests

144
00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,840
that these are children

145
00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:45,840
in this world and the newsprint on your

146
00:06:45,840 --> 00:06:48,240
fingers, which is something I remember.

147
00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,039
So then the third paragraph,

148
00:06:51,039 --> 00:06:54,240
I introduced Ria and Role.

149
00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,120
So now there are two girls. Now, we

150
00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,360
don't know how old they are, but they're

151
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,440
flying on their rusted old bicycles down

152
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,080
the long hill toward the railroad yard,

153
00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,039
Whipples Ice, the scrubby pasture land

154
00:07:07,039 --> 00:07:10,000
where dairy cows grazed. They'd stolen

155
00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,639
$6 from their own grandmother who loved

156
00:07:12,639 --> 00:07:15,599
them. They were 11 years old. They were

157
00:07:15,599 --> 00:07:17,759
identical twins. They bask in their

158
00:07:17,759 --> 00:07:21,039
power. So, the third paragraph, it's not

159
00:07:21,039 --> 00:07:22,880
necessarily related to the others. It's

160
00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,280
like this Henry Cow music that is kind

161
00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:26,960
of floating.

162
00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,120
And then the fourth paragraph is out of

163
00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,000
time. It's just sort of an observation

164
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,919
from the future. Rita and Roa Conungle.

165
00:07:35,919 --> 00:07:38,319
It was always Ria and Roa. Never ROA and

166
00:07:38,319 --> 00:07:41,120
Ria. I I don't know why. You just

167
00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:42,960
couldn't say the names that way. Not

168
00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:44,720
even the teachers at school would say

169
00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,360
them that way. So, this seems to be some

170
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:49,520
girl classmate of theirs remembering

171
00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,240
them, but she doesn't know too much

172
00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,680
about what she's saying.

173
00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,199
Then the fifth paragraph,

174
00:07:59,199 --> 00:08:01,280
we went to see them in a funeral parlor

175
00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:05,440
where they were waked. We were made to.

176
00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,199
So, by the fifth paragraph, we see

177
00:08:07,199 --> 00:08:10,160
they're already dead. Ria and Roa, we

178
00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,639
saw them on their bicycles, but by the

179
00:08:12,639 --> 00:08:14,960
fifth paragraph, they're dead already.

180
00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:16,879
We were made to go see them in the

181
00:08:16,879 --> 00:08:19,759
funeral parlor. We were made to meaning

182
00:08:19,759 --> 00:08:21,440
we were children and we had to do it.

183
00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,319
Our parents made us. The twins and twin

184
00:08:24,319 --> 00:08:26,560
caskets, white, smooth, gleaming,

185
00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,520
perfect as plastic with white satin

186
00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,000
lining puckered like the inside of a

187
00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:36,000
fancy candy box and the waxy white liies

188
00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:37,760
and the smell of talcum powder and

189
00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,719
perfume. The room was crowded. There was

190
00:08:40,719 --> 00:08:46,240
only one way in and one way out.

191
00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,160
So that paragraph is packed with a lot

192
00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,000
of meaning. We see that the girls are

193
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,519
dead and they're in this very plastic

194
00:08:53,519 --> 00:08:57,040
looking situation with white

195
00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,360
like a candy box

196
00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,839
and waxy liies and a smell of talcum

197
00:09:01,839 --> 00:09:04,160
powder and the room is crowded. There's

198
00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,160
only one way in and one way out. This

199
00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,480
suggests like there's one way into our

200
00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:10,240
lives.

201
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,959
and there's one way out and the children

202
00:09:12,959 --> 00:09:16,240
are made to go in the funeral parlor.

203
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,480
Then the next paragraph, Rean wrote it

204
00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:20,399
with the same girl. They'd wanted it

205
00:09:20,399 --> 00:09:22,640
that way. Only looking from one to the

206
00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,440
other could you see they were two. This

207
00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,560
is a child speaking in kind of illogical

208
00:09:28,560 --> 00:09:31,360
almost like a comic voice. They were the

209
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:32,800
same girl, meaning they looked

210
00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,040
identical. They were twins. They wanted

211
00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,360
to look identical. You have to look from

212
00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,279
one to the other quickly to see that

213
00:09:39,279 --> 00:09:41,279
they were two. Try to figure out which

214
00:09:41,279 --> 00:09:44,640
is Ria and which is Roda.

215
00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:46,720
But the person who's saying this is a is

216
00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,000
childish. And so her method of speaking

217
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,040
is a little bit naive. Then the next

218
00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,040
paragraph

219
00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,120
is out of time. It's some different

220
00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,160
time. The heat was gauzy. You had to

221
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,399
push your way through it like swimming.

222
00:10:02,399 --> 00:10:04,480
On their bicycles, Ria and Roa flew

223
00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,160
through it, hardly noticing from their

224
00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,480
grandmother's place on Main Street to

225
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,240
the end of South Main where the paved

226
00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,959
road turned to gravel leaving town. This

227
00:10:12,959 --> 00:10:14,800
was the summer before seventh grade when

228
00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:16,640
they died.

229
00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,200
Death was coming for them, but they

230
00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,360
didn't know.

231
00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,600
So the whole story proceeds in these

232
00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,920
paragraphs that are cutting back and

233
00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,000
forth in time

234
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,040
and we get introduced to other people

235
00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,040
and you're introduced to their murderer.

236
00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,880
The murder is introduced very soon.

237
00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,040
It's said that he's arrested before we

238
00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,839
know who even who he is because the girl

239
00:10:41,839 --> 00:10:43,760
who's remembering the story remembers it

240
00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,399
in a discontinuous way which is the way

241
00:10:46,399 --> 00:10:50,120
our memories were.

242
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,800
The whole story was imagined as this uh

243
00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,480
experiment in in paragraphs. And so I

244
00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,560
just started writing it and I wrote the

245
00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:04,720
paragraphs in no particular order the

246
00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,040
way a child might remember them. If you

247
00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:08,560
were remembering somebody you knew in

248
00:11:08,560 --> 00:11:11,360
grade school, so you somebody you knew

249
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,240
in seventh grade and this person died,

250
00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,160
you have a discontinuous memory like you

251
00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,240
remember uh well you remember the first

252
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,560
time you met the the girl, you might

253
00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:22,000
remember the girl with your mother, you

254
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:23,680
might remember the girl who was already

255
00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:25,920
dead, you remember how she died, you

256
00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:27,600
remember thoughts about her, you

257
00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,440
remember something that she did. None of

258
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,160
it's none of it's continuous because our

259
00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,560
memories are very broken and fragmented.

260
00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:37,920
Nobody has a chronological memory.

261
00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:39,519
All our memories are just sort of like

262
00:11:39,519 --> 00:11:41,920
ripples in the pond and they're very

263
00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,880
discontinuous, but they're very u it's

264
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,279
very exciting that way because there's a

265
00:11:47,279 --> 00:11:50,320
certain delayed continuity. The

266
00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,120
chronology is definite.

267
00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,880
Something happened 1 2 3 4 5 6 7. The

268
00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,360
the chronology is very clear, but the

269
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,000
memory of it is discontinuous.

270
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,360
So for me it was very exciting to write

271
00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,800
it because once in a while the girl she

272
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:10,959
thinks death is coming for you but you

273
00:12:10,959 --> 00:12:14,399
don't know when and suddenly she thinks

274
00:12:14,399 --> 00:12:16,880
that's true for her too. You know it's

275
00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:18,639
when you're a child you don't think that

276
00:12:18,639 --> 00:12:20,720
death is coming for you. When you get

277
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,040
older you do I think that we become

278
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,600
ghosts in our own pasts and there are

279
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:27,519
certain places that we haunt in our

280
00:12:27,519 --> 00:12:29,600
memories. We keep going back to those

281
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,839
places and looking at them again. And

282
00:12:31,839 --> 00:12:34,079
the idea of the girls on the bicycle is

283
00:12:34,079 --> 00:12:37,360
something that is very haunting to me.

284
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,279
If you're a writer, you want to find

285
00:12:39,279 --> 00:12:41,680
something that's haunting to you,

286
00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:44,160
something you may remember, but not

287
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:45,839
completely.

288
00:12:45,839 --> 00:12:50,680
You remember parts of it.

289
00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:55,839
There's a very famous short story by

290
00:12:55,839 --> 00:12:58,399
Charlotte Perkins Gilman called The

291
00:12:58,399 --> 00:13:00,480
Yellow Wallpaper that people probably

292
00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:02,720
know. I recommend that story, but that's

293
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,120
all just sentences and almost no

294
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,360
paragraphs. And that story is written

295
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:09,600
from the point of view of a woman who's

296
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,680
suffering a nervous breakdown. She's

297
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:14,399
been put in a room at the top of a house

298
00:13:14,399 --> 00:13:16,560
that almost feels like she's been put

299
00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:20,079
away like she in a her own family's put

300
00:13:20,079 --> 00:13:22,240
her in an asylum like her husband's put

301
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,680
her up in that room. And that story when

302
00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:30,240
you look at it is very manic. She's

303
00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,600
manic. The sentences are like machine

304
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,320
gunfire. She's in a manic state all the

305
00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,279
way through. She's breathless.

306
00:13:39,279 --> 00:13:42,560
And when you look at that story as a

307
00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:44,639
typological phenomenon, you really want

308
00:13:44,639 --> 00:13:47,279
to read it. Now, there are other stories

309
00:13:47,279 --> 00:13:49,519
and other pros where it's all one

310
00:13:49,519 --> 00:13:51,200
paragraph. And there have been novels

311
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,200
that are all one paragraph. They

312
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:57,199
represent a certain challenge to the

313
00:13:57,199 --> 00:14:02,079
brain because we we like continuity

314
00:14:02,079 --> 00:14:04,560
and discontinuity. We like continuity to

315
00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:07,360
end. We like finite things. We like

316
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,600
minutes to minutes lead to hours and

317
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,199
hours end. Hours are hours lead to a day

318
00:14:13,199 --> 00:14:16,079
and that ends. You cross off that and

319
00:14:16,079 --> 00:14:17,760
then it leads up to a month and you

320
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:19,360
cross off the month and then we have a

321
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,000
year. Now in nature there are seasons

322
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,000
but there are not these finite things.

323
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,120
You know birds and animals have no sense

324
00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,560
of what what the chronology is. But

325
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:31,920
there's something about the human brain

326
00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,399
that likes things to be finite. So you

327
00:14:34,399 --> 00:14:36,240
like something to come to an end. And

328
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,399
when it's all one paragraph, like a long

329
00:14:38,399 --> 00:14:40,320
novel,

330
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,880
that's a challenge. It's a challenge.

331
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:44,800
Your readership diminishes. You don't

332
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,440
have as many people read it. A typical

333
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,120
Stephen King novel moves very swiftly.

334
00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,600
And all the novels, probably every novel

335
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,000
that's a bestseller

336
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,399
ever is something that moves pretty

337
00:14:58,399 --> 00:15:00,880
fast. And some of the sentences are are

338
00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,040
pretty short in the declarative

339
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,440
sentences. I wanted to write a story

340
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,240
that was about a maze and as you go

341
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,000
around the maze you get farther and

342
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,320
farther till you're in the middle and it

343
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:13,760
might have been something I called the

344
00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:19,360
maze or the captive. So the story

345
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,760
has sentences all around like in in a

346
00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,720
large type all around. So you you read

347
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,839
it like this and then the next line in

348
00:15:27,839 --> 00:15:30,800
is slightly smaller font. So you're

349
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,760
going in and that's slightly smaller. So

350
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:35,440
you keep going around and around

351
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,440
slightly smaller font until it gets way

352
00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,560
way way in. Then in the middle there's

353
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,519
like a a rectangle

354
00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:48,639
that ends with like two words

355
00:15:48,639 --> 00:15:51,839
and a period. So the idea is that some

356
00:15:51,839 --> 00:15:56,639
person has gone through this whole maze

357
00:15:56,639 --> 00:16:00,880
and ends up in the middle and it's it

358
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,519
was reprinted printed in a magazine. So

359
00:16:03,519 --> 00:16:05,360
you had to keep turning the magazine

360
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,480
around and so I was pasting things in

361
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:10,800
and then I photocopied it. So it became

362
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,360
more like a work of art. But I would

363
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,120
like to experiment with something like

364
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,600
that again. And I should I should

365
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,240
encourage my students to do that kind of

366
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:21,839
uh

367
00:16:21,839 --> 00:16:24,880
typological experimentation.

368
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,839
There are there's a whole kind of poetry

369
00:16:27,839 --> 00:16:29,839
you know that like a poem in the shape

370
00:16:29,839 --> 00:16:33,759
of a tree, a poem in the shape of a key,

371
00:16:33,759 --> 00:16:38,639
a poem of the the shape of a bird. Um, I

372
00:16:38,639 --> 00:16:41,519
have had I've tried to write poems in

373
00:16:41,519 --> 00:16:44,160
different shapes like the shape of a

374
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:48,320
tree with a little thing on the bottom.

375
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,959
Those are very interesting because they

376
00:16:50,959 --> 00:16:53,279
acknowledge the the fact that's neur

377
00:16:53,279 --> 00:16:55,920
neurological that art comes to us

378
00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,240
through our eyes.

379
00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,800
So art and and literature come to us

380
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:02,959
through our eyes and you can do things

381
00:17:02,959 --> 00:17:05,439
with the white space. That's very

382
00:17:05,439 --> 00:17:08,559
arresting. If I were an editor, I used

383
00:17:08,559 --> 00:17:11,120
to be an editor. If I got a st short

384
00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:14,079
story that had different

385
00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:17,600
uh typography and different shapes and

386
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,480
fonts, I would read that story with more

387
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,120
more interest than a conventional story.

388
00:17:23,120 --> 00:17:26,959
I would find that very exciting visually

389
00:17:26,959 --> 00:17:29,200
and I would hope that I could publish

390
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,480
it. There may be other editors who feel

391
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,400
that way.

392
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,080
But most stories that come in are just

393
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,799
conventional. So I would like to do more

394
00:17:38,799 --> 00:17:41,919
unusual things like like that. So as I

395
00:17:41,919 --> 00:17:43,679
think more about it, maybe I'll go home

396
00:17:43,679 --> 00:17:47,760
and write some of these strange stories.